After day one at the CEB Cup 2018 in Ostrava, Czech Republic featured three mercy-rule shortened games, the second day of the competition provided more drama. The Bonn Capitals improved to 2-0 with an 11-8 win over the Borgerhout Squirrels. Bonn led 9-0 after five innings, but Borgerhout scored eight runs combined in the sixth and seventh to return to the game. However a two-run shot by Kevin van Meensel in the eighth put the final nail in the coffin. Steven De Lannoy homered for the Squirrels.
In the second matchup in Group A Biotechkommanda KNTU erased an early 0-3 deficit against the Therwil Flyers to pick up their first win 9-7. A pair of two-run innings and a big five-run rally helped KNTU to turn the page. With a potential win on Thursday against Bonn the Ukrainian team now still has a chance to reach the semi-finals.
Host Arrows Ostrava meanwhile already has won Group B. Following their opening day win over Olimpija Karlovac (14-0) they also shut out Templiers Senart 7-0 in a tense game. Tomas Ondra and two relievers kept Senart to four hits. Terrell Joyce and Michael Vykoukal combined for three home runs. Templiers starter Raudelin Legra Perez successfully picked off three players of Arrows at first, but also gave up seven runs on 12 hits to take the loss.
The Templiers and Karlovac will play for second place in Group B on Thursday. Olimpija defeated BC Minsk 16-13 in a high-scoring affair.
Results Day 2:
Standings after Day 2:
Schedule Day 3:
Live play by play, all box scores and statistics can be found at www.baseballstats.eu
This says so much about European baseball. The Czechs, for instance, cannot field but one quality team. So, while that team, Draci, opens against a top Italian team, the also-ran Arrows open against a nobody from Croatia. Even so, Ostravia must pick up players from other teams to compete. There is NO PARITY in European baseball. How old is the Arrows DH now, 45 or 50? He could not compete with 17 year-olds in Germany or Italy or the Netherlands (or, probably, France).
Rouen beat Amsterdam ,it just gets better. Rouen have not been dominant in France but it means that the likes of Montpellier must and some others that the French are catching up fast.
As for the comments about baseball in the Czech Republic one should remember that Draci(Dragons) Brno are easily the best but there are four or five others that are catching up fast and that the overall standard of play is high. (Few errors amd low scoring due to good fielding and pitching).
Rome was not built in a day but there is no doubt that the standard of play is improving right across Europe (with the exception of GB). The rise in standards will continue to rise as long as the increase in interest is there and the way to widen interest is to give yougsters access to the games as a supporter of a team and then as a player through the coaching and training (in schools and in the clubs).
They way to create the interest is a Europe wide league system and probably a franchise system. People can play for the local club but can aspire to the top if they are good enough. In GB the game is still at a local level although there is a National league (it is basically all in the south) when baseball in the UK in sixties and seventies was about Liverpool,Hull,Stretford (Manchester),Bromsgrove etc. Interest and access must start at the local level but players need to be able to “Move Up” if they have the talent. At the moment wether baseball is played in an area is because there is local interest but if that interest (the local players) move on to work or live then that interest dies. Baseball in Northern England has gone independent because they are isolated from the decision making. This stranglehold on the “power” by people who do not understand how to encourage interest and thus development of the sport occurred at a European level last year. A professional European league tried to start but was strangled by the bureaucracy and the smallmindedness of the officals in places like the Netherlands and the CEB who feared losing their power and their control of Baseball .to a Professional league.
Heidenheim beat Rimini, it just gets better and better. The Dutch and the Italians now have real competiton.
Of course you must always remember that Baseball is not a territorial game and therefore opponents of similar standard can always beat one another with fair regularity that is why they need to play best of seven in the world series.
Why is this ? each team in baseball gets an equal chance to score as their opponent. In a territorial game like football (of any code) when you attack (getting chances to score) you are also denying the opponent the chance to attack and the chance to score.
We just need Brno to beat Rotterdam (Neptunus) for a real boost. I know that if you are supporters of the Italian and Dutch clubs you want your team to win but for baseball it would be great if Draci can win this afternoon.
If Biotechk can beat Bonn then there is obvious improvement all over Europe. I, for one, underestimated the standard of Eastern European Baseball (because there is so little news or info) but Karlovac and Biotech are showing that they can compete. All the more reason for thinking on a Europe-wide scale and at least a league split into regional divisions, as I proposed in an earlier posted comment. However those proposals must include franchises from places like the Ukraine as I proposed but also far eastern Europe. This could well be a turning point and the baseball powers notably the CEB must now consider an elite league divided into regional leagues which feed into an end of season play offs much as MLB does now; the only difference being that there would be no interdivisional games until the play-offs because that would not be financially viable (without high level sponsorship). But it would draw in fans old and new and hopefully TV and create a wider baseball following.
Koeman (Neptunus) throwing too many 3 ball counts wereas Chroust has allowed only one base runner and that was a walk.
The ancient European baseball pipe dream: “We’re getting better because we say we are.” No objective measurement to support that claim. No factual basis. Just “we want that to be so, therefore we will claim it is and it will be.”
In FACT, there is no parity in Europe and a couple of tournaments do not change that. Neptunis dominates The Netherlands (solely because of their Caribbean players); Draci dominates Czech; Rouen dominates France; Rimini and San Marino dominate the Italian league; Squirrels dominate Belgium; Flyers dominate Switzerland. Year after year after year and decade upon decade. The only national federation with actual parity is Germany.
How many times in the last 2-5 decades has anyone but The Netherlands or, occasionally, Italy won the European championship?
If you think Eastern Europe is competitive, the proof of your delusional claim that baseball is improving on the continent has been cast in stone.
They are AWFUL (can’t throw strikes, can’t field ground balls, have no idea how to execute offenses) and they always will be.
As to the Czechs getting better….. How many times in the past 25 years has anyone but Draci won the Czech title? I’d say twice. If some teams appear more competitive, it is because their top league added two 2nd-league teams so the other 8 now feast on the bottom two.
I’ve coached in Europe. They most decidedly are not getting better. They do not pitch better. They still cannot execute offensive plays. They still cannot execute cutoff throws. They simply cannot control the baseball, offensively or defensively.
And, with the dominant teams getting more dominant, interest among players on the other clubs is declining. Clubs are having to give up teams and reduce services to players because the money available to those clubs declines every year.
You may call that progress, but the real world does not.
It would have been very interesting if Draci Brno had been drawn to play in Group A instead of Group B. I think they could have easily reached the second round if that had been the case. Rouen have done so well. Neptunus had to resort to using several pitchers to beat Brno and two home runs. Inexperience cost Brno in the sixth inning one run scored and two runners at second and third and only one out and both batters struck out. , but experience counts. Still it is all very encouraging for European Baseball especially in the west of Europe. but hopefully the Eastern side will continue to improve Karlovac and Elizavetgrad (Biotech) deserve great credit for their improvement.
Come on CEB show us the way to bring all this together in a European league.
The claim that each country is dominated by one club is correct to some degree. However Europe has develop baseball before it can introduce a system of weaker teams getting the choice of better players like the US draft. The only measure is to measure performance against the best and what we have seen for the first time,in many years, is countries like Germany,France and Czech rep. produce clubs who can compete with Italian and Dutch clubs and beat them. Germany have created a competitive league system but that was easier for them as they are such a large country with more players to call on.France and especially the Czech Rep. do not have the same depth of population. However there is an obvious interest in the game. The Czech league has been very competitve but Draci,especially, and Ostrava are undoubtedly the best. However given that the league is so new this is an outstanding achievement and the same goes for France which has seen Montpellier come to the fore in the last two years. If they can do it then so can others but that is where my assertion that the CEB now have to bring in an upper tier that these players and the new recruits can strive to reach. European professional league tried to start last year but was strangled at birth. If that is the way then the CEB have to replace it with something similar not just sit back and let things continue as they are now. Look at Australia where baseball was a winter game until a few years ago and look at it now. If that league had not been developed then baseball would still be the same; and what do we see now ? Korea and New Zealand are to start new franchises. The franchise system has got to be developed in Europe in major cities/centres of baseball that will attract spectators, new recruits (children the players of the future) and reward the present generation of players and coaches. I am just so sad that the development that has taken place does not seem to have reached the UK/GB as yet.
Straffan’s pipe dream continues not to match reality.
He claims baseball was a “winter game” in Australia. Does he realize that our winter is their summer? The ABL continues to struggle. Its nice that NZ can finally afford to try competing in that league, and nice that Korea will use it as a practice tool (certainly, the Korean national league will not be involved. Korea is far too good to be involved in the ABL).
What Straffen does not seem to realize is that European baseball’s metastatic cancer is not at the top, but at the bottom. Local teams are losing players. Their finances are less viable by the year. Players are tired of not having a chance to win. They’ll go play soccer or ice hockey. Or even field hockey…..
It’s about PARITY. Contrast European baseball to field hockey, where national federations have huge league participation. That’s because they have a level playing field: most teams have a chance to compete. In virtually every European baseball federation but Germany, one team dominates. No one else has a chance to compete.
And every innovation benefits the dominant teams instead of the federation as a whole.
Straffan is simply wrong about Czech baseball. Draci is, by far, the dominant team. But Draci does not compete with the Dutch and Italian teams. Within the Czech Republic, it is all Draci. Before expansion (read: dilution), Ostrava and every other Czech team (save Kotlarka for a couple of years until they lost their US coach) was a game or so above or below .500 while Draci would have one or two losses for the year. Hrosi Brno, for instance, is now a top 3 contender. Before expansion, they were last or next-to-last. One does not improve one’s league by diluting the competition.
European baseball lives by posturing.
If you want to ACTUALLY improve European baseball, a great step would be to change one rule: The only players allowed to compete in the CEB cup and the European championships are born on the European continent. No Americans, no Carribeans, no Mexicans, no Koreans or Japanese. STAND ON YOUR OWN TWO FEET.
If non-European athletes were banned just from these tournaments, you would see European baseball actually improve.
But that kind of improvement requires humility. And investment. And years of hard work. Europe prefers to posture.
I do not claim that baseball was a winter game in Australia; it was a fact. That statement was made to show that baseball in Australia used be a sport to keep cricketers fit. Do not think that baseball in Australia was sub standard as Bill Lawry and Norman O’Neill both opening batsmen were offered contracts by the New York Yankees on the night before the first test against England.Yes I do know winter in Australia is similar to a good English summer. Perth has a Meditteranean (Millers classification) climate and the South East Coast,Tasmania and New Zealand has a climate similar to our own or Northern France. My main call is for an elite league that will attract support and supporters and give young players something to aim for. Cricket in England is looking for a game that can be played in an evening for about 3 hours that is why they are trying 100-ball a side cricket based in cities. They would not have a chance if baseball was an alternative.
Winter in the northern hemisphere IS SUMMER in the southern hemisphere. On even this side issue, Straffan is dead wrong.
It appears the O’Neill guy was offered to work out with the Yankees, which is not a contract to play in a minor league (in those days, that would have been “D” ball).
Like so many European fans and executives, Straffan has it backwards. The way to develop the game is not from the top down, but from the bottom up.
Straffan’s idea is that, to prosper, British baseball must be an off-season alternative to cricket. Its superfluous. In every European country, there are SEVERAL sports more attractive than baseball: soccer, rugby, field hockey, even tennis or swimming. The challenge is to build up baseball — NOT attack the other top sports. The way to build up baseball is to make it more compelling to current players and attractive to new players. The ONLY way to do that is to give everyone a chance to win.
If only one club in a nation wins every year, only that club will consistently attract new talent. And prosper. Baseball in the rest of the country strangles.
If you want to focus only on baseball at the top, go to Israel. Their national team has 1 or 0 native Israeli players. Almost all the roster is players from North America who are Jews. Do you think Israeli baseball will grow? They don’t even have an adult or <18 league — NOT ONE in the whole country. Is that the sort of growth you want for Europe?
Not me. I want Europe to grow European players. The investment must be in your youth — and everybody must have a fair chance.
Fred just you hold on a minute you have just shown up your own ignorance of the facts. When I said during the winter in Australia I meant winter in Australia i.e. the season of their coldest time of the year. Not as you have just portrayed my comments .It is you who does not understand. You have misunderstood the facts and mis-interpreted my comments. Cricket was the only summer game in Australia for much of the sixties,seventies and eighties. and only fairly recently has baseball become a summer game. Lawry and O’Neill were one of many cricketers that played baseball in winter in Australia.Baseball relied on these cricketers to keep the skill level at a high level.
By the way I am a trained and taught A Level climatology and meteorology.
Fred you just do not read the posts. I did not say that I wanted baseball as an off season alternative to baseball. I used the example of Australia to show how they had developed to show that they had a ready base because they could use baseball as a winter game (because of the warmer climate) and that it was played by many top level cricketers (who have similar skills) so therefore the skill level in their leagues was already at a high level.
So now, baseball was played in winter in Australia (June,July ,August) not in as you put our winter i.e November,December and January). Before making criticisms make sure YOU understand the facts.
Another interesting aspect of the Champions Cup, in particular, is the underachievement of teams that have been doing well or dominating in their own leagues. Senart, Bonn and Amsterdam seem to have underachieved. There is usually a reason for these things happening.Could it be due lack of strength in depth,especially of pitchers; the tight schedule and lack of recovery time.
I know baseball is a volatile sport i.e. you can lose 10-0 to a team and beat them by the same score the day after but teams like Bonn are 22-0 in their league, Amsterdam are 14-1 in their league, Senart 12-4 in their league.
Senart were beaten by Ostrava and Bourghout and had a rough time against Karlovac
Bonn were beaten by Elizavetgrad which was quite a shock.
Amsterdam were beaten by Brno and Rouen.
Therefore you have to say that there is some strength (On a European Level) in the quality of baseball in the Czech Republic .
Brno performed well against everyone they played(Dutch and Italians alike) against and might have qualified, especially if they had been in the other group.
The experience of Rouen and Senart was completely the opposite.
Bourghout did very well and hopefully will foster some regeneration in Belgian baseball.
Where is the Uk in all this. Most teams have played only two games and two teams haven’t even played one game yet. Even considering the wet spring, you cannot excuse the shambles of baseball in GB. Many northern teams have gone independent but some of their younger players have got into the GB teams. Yes, London Mets and Southampton seem to be doing well but how do we compare to the rest of Europe?
When I said the experience of Rouen and Senart was completely the opposite, I meant to say that they each had contrasting experiences. Rouen did well but Senart were inconsistent for a team that was doing so well at home.
Montpelier and the French league must be worth seeing.
Straffan,
As Bob Dylan once said, you don’t need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. You and I disagree as to the seasons in Australia; it really is not relevant to the bottom line.
The fundamental issue here is the status and development of baseball in Europe. You claim it is improving by leaps and bounds. I have coached it there and observed it for over a decade. I have offered specific facts to support my position that it is stagnating. It appears that you have offered general assumptions and wishes that it will improve.
If you wish to address the specifics of my points about European baseball, I will be happy to entertain further discussion.
To develop baseballs we need local leagues and we have had these for years.
The competitions like the Champions cup are not what is needed though they do give some idea how the sport is progressing (up to now very slowly but in the last few years there seems to be some encouraging developments)
For the top player in Europe they need to be playing against each other regularly and in teams that supporters can follow. Each country (playing baseball at the moment)should be able to provide at least one team made up of the best players playing in a variety of clubs at the moment. Some countries like Italy,Netherlands,CzechRep, Germany , France, could provide two or three teams, that is why a franchise system would help. The top players today need to be playing against one anopther and provide the stimulus for youngsters just starting. It is about providing a structure but that structure must have a top division as well as lower leagues . It is not about bringing in hundreds of foreigners althougth there would be a rule to allow and certain number of foreign players In a roster of 25 player maybe 4 or 5 foreigners. I don’t know but I am interested in the structure with a top league that can provide interest to the public by attending live games and/or TV . Without the latter baseball will remain the same in Europe.
These cup competitions are all very well at the moment but there needs to be some sort of elite at the top. Baseball in Europe is not being ambitious enough and strangled the only attempt to establish that top league last year.
Baseball is considered traditionally a summer sport, meaning such that it will start in spring and end in autumn, however, this has changed many times in Australia for different reasons. One of these reasons is because baseball in Australia was originally considered a sport for cricketers in the off-season, but as baseball became more popular as a standalone sport it was played more often in summer. The Claxton Shield was traditionally played in the Australian winter so Sheffield Shield players could participate.
However, the Australian Baseball League, International Baseball League of Australia and Claxton Shield in recent years have been played in the Australian summer, this is due to the MLB and other northern hemisphere baseball leagues being played in the northern summer, therefore many high-profile players from Australia were unable to play in the southern winter.
The Claxton Shield in 1961 marked an expansion in the competition as all teams played each other twice that year. In 1962, the longstanding tradition of hosting the event in August was broken when host Adelaide scheduled the series in October, perhaps the first step in a long march to create the sport’s eventual move in Australia to the summer season. Behind starting pitcher Neil Page, South Australian teams dominated the decade, winning six championships. The decade also marked the introduction of the Helm’s Award, which is presented to the Claxton Shield’s MVP every year.[15]
And which of the national top leagues do you think will give up players to this super league you’re dreaming of?
Answer: none. Such a league was just tried. The Dutch federation killed it because they would not give up control of their best players. Clubs in the Czech were irritated that they had to adjust their national schedule to allow Draci’s participation in a 3-team super league. No one liked it.
Consolidating the top of the talent tree is no answer. They tried it and it had no support.
It is not possible to build up the base by catering to the top 1% at the expense of others.
Your innovative suggestion of limiting foreign players to 4-5 per team is irrelevant as no team has 4-5 foreign players today.
Go back to your weather charts and cricket. You have nothing to offer baseball because you utterly do not understand it.
Consolidating the top of the talent tree is no answer. They tried it and it had no support.
It was strangled because those in power did not want to lose their power and influence which has let baseball remain a parochial game in Europe. Baseball has hardly improved in GB and Europe since I played at the end of the sixties and early seventies. They are trying to run baseball like football with leagues in each country and then a European Cup just like football. You know as well as I do, you can beat a team 10-0 one day and lose byt he same score the next day. It happens even at the highest level i.e. MLB and we have seen it happen in the last week.
“It is not possible to build up the base by catering to the top 1% at the expense of others.”
Again you misrepresent what I have been saying. Nobody is suggesting we cater for the top 1% at the expense of others. I am saying the best need to play against the best for the good of the game i.e. raising aspirations and skill levels .Why do you think Australia is ahead of Europe;because their winter Claxton Shield was used by top class cricketers to keep fit and kept the skill level high.
Now if this elite European League based on the franchise system starts in the places of highest skill levels such as the Dutch,Italians,Czech Rep., Germany,French.,Belgium, with franchises according to degree of strength (i.e. number of players able to compete with teams of champions league quality baseball). Yes there would have to be restrictions on numbers of foreign players on each roster. Having done this you can now present a league that will attract supporters (people willing to pay an entrance fee) and thus attract interest in the game from younger people ,who , as yet, know little or nothing about the game. A league would also get rid of the need for a European Champions cup because the top of the league would be just that champions of Europe. However it may be better to have two divisions if there was enough interest,quality of player, and then have a European series. The franchise system should allow expansion if and when other areas wish to join but they must be able to prove that there is a following and playing culture that is strong enough to compete. The restriction on number foreign based players, will always ensure that European born and long term residents make up the majority of these teams.
If the CEB keep waiting then they will wait forever. They did not have the sense or the foresight to see what they were being presented with when the European League tried to start.
Like you, the guy from Eindhoven had a pipe dream about a European professional league. It failed, utterly, because his pipe dream was like yours: it applied no execution skill and no plan. It was just an idea.
The work, you see, and the excellence is in EXECUTION, not just having an idea with nothing behind it but the wind. They hadn’t laid their groundwork. They hadn’t obtained the funding. They hadn’t secured the players. Surprise surprise, they fell on their faces
You seem to believe all the teams in the national leagues will just line up to put their players in the next super league. You fail to grasp that all European teams have too small rosters and too few games & practices to match up with the serious countries in the Americas and Asia — even Australia. An effort to take their players from local games and practices will be resisted. Every club in Europe already loses players to national team and U-18 and U-23 practices throughout the summer. It’s a distinct pain in the backside, and most national team coaching staffs lack the skill to improve the players at those practices.
Even if you could start such a league — which you cannot — fans will not just show up. The recent league had all sorts of great plans to attract fans (apparently, they had visited a US minor league program and believed themselves to have become experts on promotion by osmosis). Promoting the games, and having in-game activities to keep the fans’ interest are HUGE undertakings which require a lot of work — over a year before the season and days’ of effort in season. As in almost every other European baseball undertaking, they lacked the experience nor the skill to do these promotions. As a result, attendance was poor and fans came away bored — never to return.
You absolutely do not understand, that a sport must have a strong local base before it attempts to become internationally competitive. First, there must be sufficient executives to promote the game for their local clubs, gain membership, and establish strong instruction on the field. No one in Europe has that. And, rather than do the work, over YEARS to develop the club, they all try shortcuts. The latest are academies. The underlying purpose of these academies (where, in some communities, students are asked to move from their home communities and fork over tens of thousands of dollars) is not to improve the game in their countries, it’s to cajole and con players from other communities into their academies and onto their clubs’ rosters. The academies, by the way, are all failing (their clubs all decline at the national league level and now they must beg for academy participants).
There are no shortcuts. Improvement requires persistence and quality instruction over YEARS of effort.
That’s how Canada built up their baseball. It took 20 years. They started out no better than Europe, but they are competitive in the Americas and internationally today. European baseball can’t keep up.
In Australia, it was not the Claxton Shield tournament that grew baseball. It was MLB player Dave Nillsson and his brothers applying decades of hard work. The national league had fallen apart — I think for the second time. The Nillsson brothers built up leagues and promoted and promoted and promoted until they got what is now the ABL, and grew the national team into respectability. The ABL has been struggling to stay afloat for years. But the next 2 levels are very healthy.
When you triple or quadruple the number of <10 players, and get a percentage of them to stay into the adult leagues; when you attract quality coaches from the Americas to grow your skills, baseball will improve in Europe. The synergy between those two will make the European game respectable.
Instead, Europeans want to find something to brag about before they've done the work to earn bragging rights. Consequently, European baseball always slips into pipe dreams and posturing.
I agree that baseball and softball has to be taught in schools to get over this stigma that pervades.especially in the UK. I can well remember being told by a passer-by /spectator that I should be playing cricket not that American game of rounders. I still hear that derogatory remark about being glorified rounders from a member of the quiz team that I was in from a shortsighted Yorkshireman who believed that there are only two sports in the world worth playing, and that was association football and cricket.
This country has professional baseball with hundreds of players and spectators before the world war 2 and it is not a cultural thing to resent baseball as some people obviously do. In it something to do with the little Englander attitiude that pervades all our football grounds and sad to say the sports media.
Baseball is broadcast on SKY and BT but that is because it is convenient to the broadcaster as the games mostly start after 9pm-midnight GMT but here are a few that start around 6-7pm at weekends and when a double header is scheduled.
The route I propose would also mean that there should be some iniative in schools to teach the game /introduce people to baseball. Assoc. Football was in a similar state in the USA and, to a lesser extent, in Canada, but the publicity brought by World Cups and European Tournaments brought an initial interest that was dveloped by the development of their own professional league. I accept that what worked in North American may not work here because there are many more immigrants into the US from Europe and South America which provided a ready fan base.
Having waited for some leadership from the CEB and waited for 50 years is it not time to try something else that has proved succesfull in other parts of the world. Japan followed a simiar route as the USA in the development of football as that proved succesful. Rugby Union had a bigger following in Japan than football.
So sit and wait and wait and and misrepresent anyone that says anything different to your own standing but then. that has been a problem for a long time in many areas of life and the result is stagnation.
“The Claxton Shield was traditionally played in the Australian winter so Sheffield Shield players could participate”. Wikipedia
WINTER in Australia
Can you read and understand the facts Fred.
Tell us your involvement in baseball. You’ve said you played in the 1950s and 60s. Anything else? Have you coached teams, and at what age, and when? Are you active with a club now? If so, what do you do?
Fred Even now it is obvious that you don’t of can’t read properly. I said I played in the sixties and seventies but you got that wrong. You misquote and misrepresent everything I wrote about, Like every dictatorship you tell me to go back to my weather charts. You makle think that was witty but it says more about your genuine aspiration to discuss the issues than to seek to gain the upper hand in a discussion. You have misrepresented and misquoted much of what I have said.
“He (me) claims baseball was a “winter game” in Australia. Does he realize that our winter is their summer?
I replied with the facts, which you patently ignored, and quoted a musician instead. Look you wrote this ;-
fred4945
4 days ago
“Winter in the northern hemisphere IS SUMMER in the southern hemisphere. On even this side issue, “Straffan is dead wrong”.
I never said otherwise, but you still cannot accept that baseball was only played in winter (June,July and August) in Australia in the sixties and seventies and even went on to say that it was a matter of opinion, and that I was dead wrong. It is you who do not understand the facts and when anyone tries to contradict what you say you resort to misrepresenting what your opponent said.and the proof is on these posts.
I have done nothing but praise the improvement in baseball in France,Germany,especially, and the Czech Republic to the level that they are now competitive with the Italians and the Dutch. It has been a long time coming but we have to enjoy what has happened and hopefully continue to make further progress.
Your continued sarcasm and belittleing of any alternative idea says one thing, that you are certainly not in any way capable of judging of any proposals that anyone else may put forward.
I played baseball in Manchester in the late sixties and early seventies but why I should have to justify my background I do not know. You seem to think that you are the lord and master of all that is said and done on this site and that everyone should have to subject themselves to your scrutiny, well I, for one, will say no more. I cannot believe that there is no editorial scrutiny of this site .
Any mis-spellings or poor punctuation were undertaken during frequent loss of connection to the site. The site was continually updating with long delays so my apologies for what appears to be poor grammar and mis-spelling.
Well, I do not see a factual assertion that a poster is wrong as being mean or hateful or dictatorial.
I asked where you had played or coached. You became incensed by my understanding that you played in the 1950s & 60s instead of the 60s & 70s. Honestly, straffan, that’s no big deal. It was 40 years ago instead of 50 years ago. So what? Was it youth ball or adult ball? You didn’t say but honestly, given the state of British baseball 40 years ago, the skill levels were so awful that there’s little difference.
You’d expressed so much passion — and such strong opinions — that I’d wondered if you had served as a coach or a club manager (chairman, technical director, etc). Apparently not.
Which leaves the conclusion that you’ve made no commitment to British baseball beyond offering your priceless opinions.
Your assertions that the French or Czechs are catching up with the Dutch & Italians — or that other Czech teams are catching up with Draci — are simply laughable.
You crowed about Heidenheim (and I like their team). But, rather than be on the level of the top Dutch and Italian teams as you claimed, where did they finish in last week’s tournament? Fifth of 8 teams? By golly, I believe it was.
Why do I know you’re wrong? Because I coached the game for decades (then sent US college players to play & catch in Europe). Because I managed and observed teams in Europe’s national leagues over the past decade. While you were playing youth-quality ball 40 years ago — then became an ignorant, opinionated fan during more recent decades.
You want anyone to hear your opinions? Go out and do the work, make the sacrifice to grow baseball in your country. Then pop off.
Fred belittle and ridicule all opposition and set yourself up as prosecution, jury and judge.
You ridicule Czech baseball and Draci. The teams I have mentioned were able to compete with the Dutch and Italians which is a big improvement. baseball in Europe with your negativity in charge. You only ask questions to get answers to give you you something else to ridicule. GB baseball does not need you.
Apologies once again. I had several connection interruptions in writing and sending of the previous post.
Fred
let me illustrate you asked me where I had played/coached.I answered in a general way because I knew you only asked so that you could ridicule/beittle the answer given, which you duly did,
“Was it youth ball or adult ball? You didn’t say but honestly, given the state of British baseball 40 years ago, the skill levels were so awful that there’s little difference.”
You said I was incensed but yet again I merely stated a fact,which I have done several times, that you pay little or no attentions to what others say but immediately jump to conclusions,twist or misunderstand the facts and never admit you are wrong. I stated that baseball was a winter game in Australia, which it was. You then said Winter in UK is summer in Australia
“fred4945
5 days ago
Winter in the northern hemisphere IS SUMMER in the southern hemisphere. On even this side issue, Straffan is dead wrong.”
You said I was wrong but it obvious it is you who was wrong but you will not admit that, or even apologise for such comments.
Time after time this all your posts have done
You have done nothing but sneer at the quality of baseball in Europe and even sneer at any improvements that are taking place. I have taken issue with your attitude, twisting and misrepresentation of my comments several times.Hopefully these improvements in baseball in Europe will continue but when I praised the efforts of Brno,Rouen and others you portrayed it as bragging. Praise of others is Bragging is it and you are wrong about that both the sentiment and the definition the word (bragging
ˈbraɡɪŋ/Submit
noun
1.
excessively proud and boastful talk about one’s achievements or possessions.
“she interrupted their endless bragging”
adjective
1.
exhibiting or characterized by excessive pride or boastfulness.)
You seem to be on this site as something of an ego trip who has to sneer and belittle others and the efforts of others in order to bolster his own self esteem so sad.
My last comment stands. Pretty much says it all.
An ignorant fan — who, by straffan’s own statements apparently has not participated in baseball as a player or club volunteer for move than 3 decades — has almost nothing to offer. No matter how loudly he says it, or how often he says it, empty statements are still that.
What Europe needs more sweat equity — which steffan does not contribute.
Repeatedly, I invited steffan to provide facts. All he has to offer is cheer leading. And nit picking. Never anything substantive. Just empty and factually unsupported opinions from someone who does not participate. Steffan may now flap his gums to his heart’s content. I will hear no more of his ignorance.
I have given proposals and praise for the improvement and hope for continued improvement but all you have done is express vile,spite and misrepresent my comments with sarcasm and show up your own lack of
knowledge by your misrepresentation of those facts. You still will not accept that baseball was a winter game in Australia. Still you persist by making remarks about
“An ignorant fan — who, by straffan’s own statements apparently has not participated in baseball as a player or club volunteer for move than 3 decades — has almost nothing to offer. No matter how loudly he says it, or how often he says it, empty statements are still that”
It is you that has done all the shouting,it is you who will not face facts and when you get them wrong will not admit it. Who are you to tell anyone anything never mind coach youngsters and young adults.
“Just empty and factually unsupported opinions ” Fred
I told you facts and you still ignore them even when quoting sources in support of the facts i mentioned. You still deny and call them matters of opinion.
Listen to this quote Fred and learn from it
“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters”
and you have displayed this in ever post you have sent since the European championships have started.
So now have a go at Albert Einstein for making that quote.
It is you down to a tee.
Czech Republic beat ChieseTaipei 12-3 I’m a little surprised but this just adds to the improving standards in many European Countries. Maybe there should be a few more games like this so that it would be easier to gauge the improvement in more detail i.e where particular areas which are lagging behind i.e. pitching,batting,fielding, strategy for special situations that a game presents.
You have to be optimistic about the development of baseball in Europe after Honkball week in the Haarlem (Netherlands) Germany and The Czech Republic have gained famous and groundbreaking victories. Europe now have to make sure that this progress continues by building a competition that will draw in spectators on a regular basis . This is done by by creating teams clubs that have a following. We cannot continue with the usual competitions such as the European Cups. One game competitions are no good for baseball. We need a season of games between a top tier,probably divided into east and west Europe and ending with a European Series (This series could be played in a neutral city to cut down travelling and also be used as an advert/stimulus for baseball. The European Pro league was just a year or two too early.
The only place that seems to be in baseball recession is the UK.